Hi Guys,
As some of you know i'm going to be driving the new THR 250 at the British Superkart GP this year and i received some info from them today that they wanted me to pass on to the Australian Competitors.
The first prototype engine was on the dyno this week and so far has shown good promise in both performance and reliability. The first prototype is a THR barrel and head that fits on to the standard Honda CR250 bottom end and Crank; which means standard bore and standard stroke. This engine, in this configuration, will be on a private test track later this week.
Once they have the first prototype sorted out the next test will involve the new crank and piston. This will make the Honda a square bore motor. The same barrel and head from prototype 1 will be used in prototype 2 just modified to accept the new bore and stroke.
Once the second prototype is sorted they will then manufacture their own cases and once added the new THR will be complete.
All three stages will be available to purchase when the engine goes on the market so that those who wish to upgrade their Honda do not have to do a complete upgrade all at once, it can be done in stages. The first stage is the Barrel and head, the second stage is the new crank and then the third stage is the new cases.
When the guys at THR give me more information i'll post it on here for you all to see. Prices are unknown at the moment and the guys want to make sure the first price they give is the right price.
For anyone interested here is a video of Kevin Busby, one of the two guys who make up THR, in an interview with Mediasuperkart about their new engine.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gcxoypxU84&list=UUhHmwRf7IZRNcp7_JZYf6LA&index=2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gcxoypxU84&list=UUhHmwRf7IZRNcp7_JZYf6LA&index=2[/url]
Cheers,
Doug.
Comments50
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine
Very good interview from Kevin. Both Kevin and Nick are good friends and we wish them all the best with their engine.
It will be interesting the first time we get on track together under the public gaze and to watch our respective developments and those of DEA.
Well done so far guys.
Best Regards
Ian
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine
Here is another update from THR if anyone is interested.
The first prototype (CR 250 with THR barrel only) has since my last post undergone further dyno running and progress is being made with a little more power being found here and there. It has also hit the track for the first time with interesting results.
The engine was put on the track at Silverstone last weekend with a novice gearbox driver at the wheel. After 16 laps in practice on the Friday the engine nipped (causes un-diagnosed at present) but was recovered and put back on the track running no troubles for the rest of the day. On Saturday the engine was 10th fastest amongst many of the best drivers and karts in England before nipping again. Unfortunately this time the plating failed so that was the end of the weekend. Both the team owners Nick and Kevin were pleased with the result and are looking forward to sorting these teething issues and testing prototype 2 ( crank and barrel w/ modified bore stroke ratio) when it's ready.
Unfortunately the manufacture of the new crank is taking longer than expected so the team is unsure of when prototype 2 will be ready.
I will keep you updated as things progress.
Cheers,
Doug.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine
The guys tested the first prototype again at Darley Moor on Sunday, this time with Carl Hume at the wheel. He got up to 2nd in the first race, with the fastest lap, until the throttle jammed open. He was up to 3rd in the second race when the throttle jammed again.Carl reports good mid-range power; the team is fitting a new throttle cable and will test again at Croix in two weeks.
Still waiting on the new crank before they go to the second prototype with a shorter stroke.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine
Sorry I've been a bit slack with the updates, but i just got sent some pictures from the THR workshop that really got me excited, and it wasn't just of kevin and nick. As soon as i have approval from them i'll put up the photos for all to see.
Since my last update The guys have run at the British GP at snetterton where we were faced with all sorts of ancillary problems, include a dodgy Australian driver. The engine had shown promise on the dyno in the days leading up to the race but it just wasn't to be on the weekend and that's how racing goes some times.
After that they headed to Cadwell park in early September still running just the cylinder on a standard Honda bottom end. The kart to 80 laps of flying practice on the Friday and pulled up no problems at the end of the day. Little bit of a heating issue that was found to be an air lock so the heating system on the kart has since been redesigned and the problem has been sorted. Come race day after starting 22nd in the final race they finished 9th showing excellent pace on the straights. If you watch the following video from about 19mins onward you will see the mighty power of the number 99 THR. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcfLmd90d0s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcfLmd90d0s[/url]
The kart then went out to Oulton park where 10 250's made up the last few places in a 125 race. THR battled well all weekend with the likes of Sam Moss, with the two of them being the class of the field. Due to a delay in manufacture they were still only running the barrel and head at this point.
The kart has since completed one more meeting at Donnington but i'm yet to hear how that one went.
If you have any questions let me know and i'll get those photos up here as soon as i get the OK from the bosses.
Cheers,
Doug.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine
Here's a link to the race report from Donington (last round of the British MSA F250 National Championship): http://www.superkart.org.uk/2013/donnington_oct_20.htm
And to the results folder: http://www.superkart.org.uk/downloads/2013/Results/2013_Donington_Oct_19_20.pdf
God and (sub-contract manufacturers!!) willing the THR, Viper and DEA F250 EVO engines will all be on display on the BSK stand at the Autosport International Show at the NEC in January:
http://www.autosportinternational.com/public/
Why not come for a holiday and enjoy the British winter!!
Best Regards
Ian :)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
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Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
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Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
[URL=http://s186.photobucket.com/user/Viperracinguk/media/THR1_zps9201c2ab.jpg.html][IMG]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/Viperracinguk/THR1_zps9201c2ab.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://s186.photobucket.com/user/Viperracinguk/media/THR2_zps91dc49fa.jpg.html][IMG]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/Viperracinguk/THR2_zps91dc49fa.jpg[/img][/URL]
Interesting to see the subtle differences between the engines.
Best Regards
Ian :)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Does anyone have info on recent discussions from NSA?
Just curious if the clubs/NSA have yet decided/agreed/trial for a direction on 250 the single class.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Oh yerr Dougie, we were talking about you too. :D
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
What about scoring them at National level / parity to the current 250 single?
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
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Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
So is there any reason why these motors will not get approved by NSA/AMRC in a hurry for 2014 Nationals?
I would like to put something together for next year and would be obvious to state the least that we know sooner rather than later if I should purchase one of these "evolution" engines or not.
It's not good for the class/sport right now if we can't make "heads or tails" of what we should/could be preparing for in 2014.
People want to know which direction to take so their expectations can be met or understood......this discussion has been going on far too long and needs to be sorted/communicated now, one way or the other.
Let's not have a situation where people prepare/invest for traditional MX style engines in 2014 and at the last moments before the Nationals the "evo" is eligible, this will stink to high hell and put noses out of joint. NSA/Clubs need to communicate pretty much now on what we should expect for 2014.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
I would suggest that if you plan to purchase one of these engines that you get all the details and submit it to the NSA for inclusion on the approved engines list ASAP. Nothing happens quickly (as you know from the stock honda regs) so the sooner you can submit it for approval the sooner it can be added to the list. This would apply for any of the engines that don't currently fit into the rules.
Cheers,
Brett
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Ian what are you waiting for, get your kit into a document with some pics and detailed specs like required by CIK such as;
Volume of Cylinder
Bore Size
Theoretical max bore size
Stroke
Inlet type, (disc or reed)
Dougie,
Tell your mate at THR to do the same.
Ashley,
Tell Andrea to do the same.
chop chop everyone.......
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Maybe the NSA should consider some sort of cut off date for engine submission before a round of the National titles, like 3 or 4 months or so, that way everyone knows where they stand at the Nationals 3-4 months prior to the event.
Bring some respect back to the entrants and regulations I'd say.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
No you don't need a parts list. BRC and SAFE never did this, nor do you need rod length.
I would say pictures or CAD pictures so it can be identified as the engine in question by a scrutineer plus basics that can't be construed later. That would be my interpretation as more than adequate for our rules plus;
Volume of Cylinder
Bore Size
Theoretical max bore size
Stroke
Inlet type, (disc or reed)
Again, BRC and SAFE did not even go to this extent so going this far should earn you 5 out of 5 stars with your submission ;)
Thanks for supporting the sport of Superkarting. ;D
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
You can email the package to me and I will submit it via my new trustworthy Superkart Club where I know it will be acted/submitted into the National Superkart Association without bias. ;)
Also the Australian Championship dates (should be another topic) according to the SKA are;
Round One - Phillip Island - May 23rd to 25th
Round Two - Sydney Motorsport Park - July 11th to 13th
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
I don't care what the rules end up being so long as there is visibility for 2014 so we know how to spend our money.....wisely. I can tell you there are people waiting until they know.......let's not lose them waiting. ;)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Ian, didnt hijack the thread, just some information. Maybe I could put some Gas Gas photos on there, Graeme can put some Yamaha ones one just so nobody is left out. The new engines look good and will be good for competition in the long run.
1 thing is for sure, it has got people talking about 250 Nationals again which is well overdue.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Pelly, where is your KTM? Post some photos. We also have a TM in Queensland as well. Engines everywhere
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Good to see some constructive conversation going on in regards to the 250 Nat class though, well over due. I was talking with the THR guys about getting their stuff homoligated over here but if Ash is getting the details for all three it looks like i wont need to.
I agree with the cut off date for national competition that Sam suggested though.
My suggestion is all interested parties, both for and against these new engines, talk to their NSA reps ASAP as, fingers crossed, things will finally start to happen soon.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
What happened to my beautiful THR thread? Now i'll have to start another. Or maybe i should start one that's just called engine porn.
[/quote]
C'mon Dougie,
What else you got for your beautiful THR thread?
Got a picture of them making the cylinder?.......very interesting and lot of people would be very surprised.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Let's not have a situation where people prepare/invest for traditional MX style engines in 2014 and at the last moments before the Nationals the "evo" is eligible, this will stink to high hell and put noses out of joint. NSA/Clubs need to communicate pretty much now on what we should expect for 2014.
[/quote]
[quote author=Sam Zavaglia link=topic=2070.msg24799#msg24799 date=1386037185]
Come to think of it Brett,
Maybe the NSA should consider some sort of cut off date for engine submission before a round of the National titles, like 3 or 4 months or so, that way everyone knows where they stand at the Nationals 3-4 months prior to the event.
Bring some respect back to the entrants and regulations I'd say.
[/quote]
Based on what I've said in the past, I think it's already too late to allow the "EVO" motor to be scored against current 250 National regs at the 2014 Australian Superkart Championship.
The NSA should definely focus and communicate to the clubs it's intent for something in 2015, that way the members/entrants get to see what the outcome is in "EVO" entrant numbers and performance throughout 2014 and comprise an eligible situation for 2015.
There is no need to rush at Australian Championship Level, by all means let it run on the track but not eligible to scored since the 2014 Championship starts in less than 4 months time. NSA need to have some respect for the current entrants preparing for 2014.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
The NSA are meant to be a mouth for club members not a vehicle for pushing their own agenda.
There should be some prerequisites to be on the NSA, you should be a current CAMS licensed driver and you should have competed at national level in the last five years. This would make sure that those that are there to speak for the members at least have a grasp of what is going on and how much effort it takes to prepare a kart for a national level meeting.
Sorry to highjack your thread Dougie, I'll get off my soap box now.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Totally agree that they shouldn't be scored this year but as I'm not a 250 nat competitor I'm going to stay out of it. I'm just here passing on information for a friend and keeping people informed.
As far as I know Jase there has been a push from the club members to get these engines approved, we want to support the people who are supporting our sport, I.e. the engine manufacturers, THR, Viper and DEA.
Also, there are some pre-requisites to be on the NSA. I think at least one state representative needs to be a club exec, and not all clubs have an exec that has competed at national level in the last 5 years.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
We have been getting phone calls from QLD National drivers asking why the introduction of the EVO engines is being pushed and rushed. This is something that they should be asking their Club about as that is where all the pushing is coming from.
I totally agree with what Sammy has said, at present we will have three Nationals to enter this years Championship and have enough bits to put together a fourth if need be, we have told the Vic Club along with the other Vic National competitors that we think that the EVO engines should not be allowed to run in the Championship this year.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
We have been getting phone calls from QLD National drivers asking why the introduction of the EVO engines is being pushed and rushed. This is something that they should be asking their Club about as that is where all the pushing is coming from.
[/quote]
What Qld national drivers have been on the phone Graeme ::) Never let bullshit get in the way of a good story hey.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)
Regards
Allan.
Re: THR 250cc EVO engine (pictures)