Hi All,
I don't want to start world war 3 on here so can we please keep this as constructive as possible.
I'm sure we've all seen the photo on facebook of the 125 kart that was T-boned at the GP last weekend in England. And anyone who's seen the photo can see what a wonderful job the side intrusion bar did in protecting the driver. Although he ended up with 9 broken ribs, a collapsed lung, sever bruising and lacerations to the kidney, it could have been a lot worse with the standard side bars some people run out here (including myself). From what i can tell, the driver was upside down when he was hit, and i'm not sure how but the side bar still looks like it did a great job of protecting him. The 250 driver who collected him suffered a broken leg that had to be plated but he has since been discharged, the 125 driver is still in hospital.
So it raises the question, should we make side intrusion mandatory BEFORE something bad happens? I know that most andersons already have it fitted but should it be something everyone has to have or just something people can elect to have? I know that i will be having side intrusion put on my kart after seeing that.
All the info i have i took from facebook, so if it's wrong maybe Sam or Ian can correct me.
Cheers,
Doug.
Comments14
Re: Side Intrusion
Do we think it is something that should be made mandatory?
Can any of the club presidents tell us if it's something their club is already discussing? Or should someone put it foward?
Re: Side Intrusion
Re: Side Intrusion
If something is done then make sure it's not just for show and to make people feel warm and fuzzy. Looking at that picture it looks to me like the radiator has been pushed well past the point that the seat would usually be so I'm not sure you can say it's done it's job.
The question would be how do you incorporate something into a kart chassis that can effectively help in an impact that could be upwards of 200kph.
Jason
Re: Side Intrusion
You are right thought it needs to be an actual safety feature, not just something that looks like it would protect you.
Good to hear the QLD club is onto it Tim, will they be making a proposal to the NSA?
Re: Side Intrusion
Thank you for bringing up this topic. I saw those photos and was thinking the same thing.
Recently, I purchased an Anderson chassis with a single side rail on the engine side and a twin one on the radiator side. I replaced the motor side with the twin side rail to save damage to the motor if a crash happen - how much more valuable is a driver's life.
You also have to remember in this particular case the radiator is not attached to the side but is attached to the floor by two rubber mounts so the radiator offers very little resistance to side impact - but it is filled with water and made on thin alloy and therefore does offer some energy absorbance once it comes in contact with an obstacle (driver) – maybe this saved the drivers life?
I am 100% making Superkarts safer for the drivers within reasonable means.
Re: Side Intrusion
Realistically you need something that can deform and absorb the energy without being bulky and taking up too much space.
If the kart was upside down then even the current Anderson design wouldn't provide much resistance in a serious crash. It is designed to work when the kart is right way up and should do a reasonable job of absorbing energy in a crash.
Yep a proposal is being worked on.
Re: Side Intrusion
CIK approved sprint chassis also needed to be improved. This is why they now incorperate a top and bottom rail on the side pod nerf bars. They do their job well. Had a 250 Inter T-bone my stock honda at QR a while ago. Stuffed the paint on the side pod and bent the steering shaft and 1 tie rod and that was about it.
I think the proposal from up here would mirror the CIK rules, but I am guessing.
Re: Side Intrusion
It would make sense to following the CIK rules and save all the debates, especially when a lot of the chassis' used in Australia today have these parts available to order. The Anderson side rails are a reasonable price and maybe you can even find a local supplier ???
It would be hard to understand anyone who doesn't want to protect themselves against this kind of injury. :o
Re: Side Intrusion
Maybe all Superkarts should be fitted with plastic CIK side pods as well, then again there will be plenty around NSW who will argue they don't look "Super" if fitted with plastic side pods or not fitted with a wing. :D
Re: Side Intrusion
The reason the #44 kart was upside down as due to a slightly earlier incident of 2 karts touching wheels it seems. The front of #44 just clipped the rear wheel of an KZ2 kart and tried becoming an aeroplane. Now a lot of gearbox class bodywork rules are currently under investigation from the MSA as they were written in the early 90's and not really relevant but hopefully sense will prevail and allow us to have more enclosed wheels.
One of the 4 stroke guys who builds his own chassis has added another bar that fits to a chassis lug to strengthen the side rail on side impact, but I'd be more worried of seat intrusion looking at it ???
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My advice would be if your not running double side rail bars is to get a set fitted. Whats £120 for the pair when its allowing you to walk away from a possible crash. Sure saved my ass a few years ago at Silverstone when a frame got bent.
Re: Side Intrusion
More time/work should be used for fiberglass side pods absorbing impact if people are serious about side impact safety with a superkart look.
Re: Side Intrusion
The bars are not allowed to deform and protrude (at peak impact) more than 45mm from were they were prior to the crash and there is a peak 'g' force permissible. Exceed either of those parameters and it's a failed test. At 5000 euros per test we were forced to make our own test rig here in Australia prior to sending anything to the CIK without knowing we were at the very least, close. It's pretty cool learning what actually makes a difference.
The Anderson front crash bar system would be fine with this as would the side pod bars (double bar type included) apart from the peak 'g' produced which the driver recieves but the problem is that another kart hitting the sidepod bar isn't a large flat surface, it's impact point is higher that the bottom bar and this causes the bar to instantly fold over inwards due to the inadequate rear spigot design thus allowing the other kart to ride up the radiator, sidepod bar and into the driver. Mounting the bars on top of the chassis rails would help this "folding over easily" problem but it will still happen.
Realistically yes the 2009 on Anderson type bars should be mandatory but these rare large impacts will still have similar results. Why not put the fuel tank back in the left hand sidepod with a bladder in it. It's a huge energy absorber?
Re: Side Intrusion
Interesting reading - thanks for that information :)
Re: Side Intrusion
I did originally in our club when the centre mount discussion arose say that side intrusion was the solution and far more important.( far more people been hurt from side hits than problems due to a side mounted tank) Fell on deaf ears. No solution in Aus, even our centre mount tank rule has engineering sign off to my knowledge.
I did not see any crash tests done to confirm these improvements would work better and be safer.
I still do not believe a correctly made centre mounted tank has any superior safety value over a properly mounted side mount tank ( although does give my legs somewhere to rest), but Scotts idea does appear to be a step in the right direction.
Regardless both my 80cc karts here in QLD run side intrusion bars as specified by the European design.
Ive had a side hit and after 6 weeks of recovery i will never hop in a kart without them.
Cameron