250 National 2013 Survey

My answers below. I don't have access to the restricted discussion of GasGas engines. Maybe an administrator could fix that?

1. Do you intend to compete at Sydney Motorsports Park Rd 1?

Yes

2. Do You intend to compete at Phillip Island Rd 2?

Yes

3. Are you interested in local club meetings only?

No

4. Do you have a problem with the introduction of specialty built engines such as the Wiwa GasGas?

There is always development going on in this sport, it is just unfortunate in this case that the perceived improvement is so large. I'm sure they are great if you have one...

5. Would you race against competitors with these engines?

Yes. A GasGas is yet to win at a national level.

6. Do you think the Wiwa GasGas and possible future specialty (non-motocross) engines should be scored in different class?

Potentially, but then we just end up with 2 smaller classes which doesn't really get us anywhere. In the long term the dominate engine will take over.

7. Would you be happy to use a 'control' tyre if it was offered to competitors at a set discounted price?

If there was significant cost saving.

8. Do you think 250 National competitor imput should be used to formulate rules in Australia or would you prefer to abide by CIK/Uk rules?

I think a combination of CIK rules with Australian competitor input is the most sensible approach.

9. What do you feel is required to gain/keep competitors in the 250 National class?

250 National Competitors tend to be budget racers, so cost is the ultimate driver for whether they race or not. Keeping cost under control would help.

here are my answers.

1. Do you intend to compete at Sydney Motorsports Park Rd 1?

If I win tattslotto and can run as a p- plater

2. Do You intend to compete at Phillip Island Rd 2?

If I win Powerball ( should be off my P's by then)

3. Are you interested in local club meetings only?

No but thats what my budget allows for

4. Do you have a problem with the introduction of specialty built engines such as the Wiwa GasGas?

Yes - it should stay as a motorcross style engine with over the counter parts available

5. Would you race against competitors with these engines?

Yes

6. Do you think the Wiwa GasGas and possible future specialty (non-motocross) engines should be scored in different class?

I think my answer to 4 means yes , but at the end of the day to finish first , first you must finish.

7. Would you be happy to use a 'control' tyre if it was offered to competitors at a set discounted price?

Yes - I think a control tyre and limiting to a set per day would make it more affordable and bring the field together a bit.

8. Do you think 250 National competitor imput should be used to formulate rules in
Australia or would you prefer to abide by CIK/Uk rules?

I think a combination of CIK rules with Australian competitor input is the most sensible approach CIK for safety and some Aussie rules to make the racing affordable and fun.

9. What do you feel is required to gain/keep competitors in the 250 National class?

Im on a tight budget, so cost is the ultimate driver for me. Keeping cost under control would help. A heavier weight ???? maybe I should hit the gym.

1. Do you intend to compete at Sydney Motorsports Park Rd 1?
- No (don't have a CAMS licence)

2. Do You intend to compete at Phillip Island Rd 2?
- No

3. Are you interested in local club meetings only?
- At this point yes

4. Do you have a problem with the introduction of specialty built engines such as the Wiwa GasGas?
- No

5. Would you race against competitors with these engines?
- yes

6. Do you think the Wiwa GasGas and possible future specialty (non-motocross) engines should be scored in different class?
- Not unless they're that much faster than the Mx style engines.

7. Would you be happy to use a 'control' tyre if it was offered to competitors at a set discounted price?
- If price was good and quantities limited per major event

8. Do you think 250 National competitor imput should be used to formulate rules in Australia or would you prefer to abide by CIK/Uk rules?
- A little from from both, it doesn't make sense to be different to the rest of the world for no reason but the rules should still be tailored to local conditions where necessary

9. What do you feel is required to gain/keep competitors in the 250 National class?
- Solid rules and no political bulls*&t from people not racing in the class. Keeping costs under control without stopping development (double edged sword i know).

10. Further Comment:

Looks like Queensland got a new 250 National member today. His name is Benjamin Tucker. Has come out from the UK. I am told he has a Anderson copy (not sure what brand) chassis with a 250 TM engine. Looks like being AASA only for a start.

[quote author=.:DLR96:. link=topic=1963.msg20853#msg20853 date=1357812605]

as for weights, nah! disagree, when i play basketball with my mates they don't lower the net for me, when i play footy with my mates they don't go and lose 40 kgs so they weigh as much as me and when we go to the hire kart track they don't make me add more weight so they can keep up with me although they all use the excuse "well your more suited to this sport than we are ;)"...i never whing about the net nor do i whing about how big they are,...i just get on with the game!...needless to say, i don't play any of these sports on the weekend in a team..... now why would that be?? ;D
[/quote]

Dalton are you serious ??? I thought you would want to back your talent and beat other drivers by being a better driver and setting up your kart better than the other guy. In all the other sports you mentioned there is no way to make things fair for all, in motor racing there is. Would you really want to rely on the fact that you weight heaps less than the next bloke to win or would you prefer to win with driving skill, I know what would be more satisfying.

Sorry to jump into your thread guys.

Dalton, relax, i seem to have hit a nerve.

All I was saying was that i think if karts are weighed up to make it realistic for the average bloke to go racing then thats what i think is fair. If someone like you needs to put some weight on the kart to come up to weight so be it. To me it looked like you were saying you should be able to take advantage of weighting as much as Kate Moss.
I don't have a problem making weight in my class but if they wanted to bring the weights up by five or ten to make it fair for guys like Brett Purdie to compete against me on a level playing field i wouldn't give a shit

As for the auto lift, mate thats up to you.

Not to hijack this thread but in 250's, being overweight is overrated and just a fat arse excuse. Proven all over the world, especially at championship style tracks.
If you weigh more than 15kgs over the min weight in 250cc, then just enjoy the sport for what it is.

Direct drive karts without a gearbox and/or low power karts such as 125cc and below.....yes there is some advantage to be had and those class weights are fair for the fat and not so fat Joe's in this world....... and no offence to any Joe's who may be fat or skinny. ;D

[img]http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/772/fatjoew.png[/img]

#1, Plan "A" is for both Nationals to race at EC.
#2. Go to PI only if good results at EC.
#3. May do National Champ. and local club races with both karts.
#4. No politics, depends on their results.
#5. Have done races with Gas Gas that have speed, so yes.
#6. Until shown they are consistantly faster, run in same National class.
#7. I have no problem with a control tyre.
#8. Local Nationals should have a say, but not into politics.
#9. You could try a Nat. competitors association, but that may not help. Seems the Nat. class rules need amending
#10. Only comment is for all states National competitors to just get on with racing, no politics, I mean no arguments between states.
Try all national karts including Gas Gas racing together until proven their speed is consistantly faster, as there are some CR250's including at least one Qld. kart that wins races against the Gas Gas.

[quote author=.:DLR96:. link=topic=1963.msg20898#msg20898 date=1357982310]
so far........with Frank Giglio we have a Championship :).

1.Dalton @ both rounds
2.Bernie @ both rounds
3.Spiderwebb at the first round maybe the second
4.Raceroz @ 80% of running
5.Frank Giglio @ both rounds...well done Frank.
[/quote]

Dalton,
Do you know if it has been confirmed yet from AMRC that a min of 5 to make a class? I know SKA submitted it for the sporting regs but haven't heard if this has been accepted.
Also, have the "P" plates being allowed by CAMS?

1. Good Chance, but not making any big disisions untill the SKA can provide me with a list of 9+ names that have payed and will be attending.
2. As above, and working out of town.(but maybe able to get there anyways)
3. Maybe.
4. No.
5. Yes and have done at a few events.
6. While ever the 250 nat class cant get 10 numbers for our premier events, then yes.
7. I am with Dalton on this one we already have controlled classes.
8. Little from both lets just get it sorted out......................
9. Solid rules and no political bulls*&t (well said TimW).
10.

Talking to Phil today, he and Paul are both out for Eastern Creek.

Yeah guys, sorry, :( but talking to Paul it's a matter of economics, and time away from his business.

It was to be my last nationals race meeting, the only chance for me to drive my #17 .Anderson/Viper in the nationals, since I didn't enter last year.

I have retired from race driving, except maybe only do a practice run.

Whilst I still have the karts (For Sale) Paul will drive my #17 and Justin the #37 PFP Raider.

So I will play the game of Team Principal, stuck in the pits worrying how the racing is going.

Since it's retirement time due to health issues, I may get time to do some fishing for a change ::) ::) ::)

[quote author=.:DLR96:. link=topic=1963.msg21064#msg21064 date=1359330323]
43 Matthew Stockman (NSW) [/quote]
There's that number again. ;D

He did a very good job also considering he is not the leanest cow in the paddock.......(for those in 250's that complain they can't be competitive because they are too heavy over the scales)

Now you pricks ARE getting funny.

;D ;D ;D ;D

So Dalton you are saying if you are 15kgs or more overweight you cant win anyway so just have a good time but you wont win mmmmm so you are saying weight makes a difference to performance - yes - even in a twin.

[quote author=MIKE DAVIES link=topic=1963.msg21084#msg21084 date=1359371981]
So Dalton you are saying if you are 15kgs or more overweight you cant win anyway so just have a good time but you wont win mmmmm so you are saying weight makes a difference to performance - yes - even in a twin.
[/quote]
Mike,
Don't worry about what anybody says, just shut up and listen to me. :D

What will it take for the doubters to understand........how many examples......nah I'm wasting my breath it will never sink in.
Even with a Stock Honda at 37HP on a tight undulating circuit, Greg Bass did a 1:07.2 at Wakefield Pk on the weekend with old tyres on his kart's first outing, without offense his weight is very much so into 3 figures, probably off the meter on most bathroom scales with only 37HP!

What about Gavin Bennett, 3 times European Superkart Champion, not exactly a supermodel figure.

If your ambitions out weigh your talent, stop blaming the rule book, it won't help you. If your opposition is faster than you, it's always going to be the case unless YOU change something to make yourself faster.

The NSA had a teleconference last night. 1 of the subjects up for discussion was the inclusion of the Evo engines and engine kits for the 250 National class which will be used in the UK next year. I am pretty confident they will be legal to run here next year. We are in contact with the MSA / BSA about it.
It will hopefully entice more people to the 250 National class due to a larger range of engines plus the ones we already have. To think the Gas Gas, Yamaha, Honda and KTM we already have taking on the THR, Vipers and DEA etc will be great to see. Also give a chance for 250 Inter guys who cant afford to upgrade to the latest inline engines a chance to buy a new engine and challenge for race wins again.

Hows the NSA going with changing the rule that made my FPE illegal? Only been waiting about a year ???
We only needed a sentence taken out or changed to suit, surely it can't be that hard to make at three or four twins legal again without us having to spend more money.

Jase,

That was also discussed and will be sorted. It is an easy fix but for some reason it just seems to take sooooooooo dam long.

Cheers,

Brett

Thanks Brett, thank god you're back.

Jason, I am sure you will be all good for next year.

Yeah Ash I keep hearing that, it would be nice to have it in a rule book.

Jase it should have been an easy fix, and it was proposed that all that had to be changed was past and present CIK approved parts and engines, and past and present motorcycle engines. Not rocket science and this was approved by the Vic Club and the SKA. Any of these new National engines could be approved by being presented to the NSA and then passing them on to the AMRC for final approval as was done with the Safe cases and the BRC engine. When is Drene going to be allowed to take his place on the NSA as one of the QLD reps.

Well I have been told its all going to be taken care of and the engines should be good to go again next season. Once again our sport seems to be able to make the very simple seem very hard.

[quote author=Fullysick link=topic=1963.msg24652#msg24652 date=1384976370]
Well I have been told its all going to be taken care of and the engines should be good to go again next season. Once again our sport seems to be able to make the very simple seem very hard.
[/quote]

Well said Jase

Gavin Bennett told me at Le Mans that he is planning on running the new DEA single next year in the UK domestic rounds.

The other thing is that CAMS technical rule writers do not like the use of CIK 'past or present' so be prepared to have this rejected even though the NSA are happy with it. This happened less than 6 months ago with Stock Honda regs.

Hi Guys

[quote author=Raceroz link=topic=1963.msg24656#msg24656 date=1384994967]
Interestingly enough speaking to competitors in the UK, many are now jumping ship to the 125cc class.
[/quote]

Many????? Out of the 68 x 2013 British F250 National Long Circuit drivers, name say 3 who are moving from F250 Nat to F125 and of those how many because of the new F250 National Regs?

As it stands, I can think of 1 (Josh Rayman) who is making that change, purely because he couldn't get his 2001 Honda CR250 to stay in one piece, and the possibility of another (Sam Moss) who will race in the class that's calendar fits best with his work schedule (will have to work every other weekend). He may well race in both as availability dictates.

I happen to agree with many of your points, but it's very easy to take "Facebook banter" and the like as "kosher" and presenting it as fact or "to your personal knowledge". In doing this you could mislead Aus competitors.

Whatever course the Aus 250 National class takes, Viper Racing UK is haply to supply relevant kit and our development of the Honda is on-going hand-in-hand with the EVO.

If anyone wants to purchase an ex-team Viper 2013 F250 Nat Honda CR250 motor package, I have 2 left (2 already sold), then they can contact me. They are both 2013 MSA British Championship race winners. Of course you can buy new Honda CR250 as well!!

We are registering 2 x EVO kits with the MSA. 1 is the Viper SK250S crank and cylinder assembly (68 x 68.8 bore and stroke) to fit the Honda crankcase induction engine and the other is the SK250S full kit engine with front mounted induction and rear exit exhaust.

Registration paperwork must be submitted to the MSA by 1st December and inspections carried out by 31st Jan 2014.

As an aside, the UK F125 Open class is up from 4 or 5 competitors 3 years ago up to a forecast 30+ in 2014, mainly due to the efforts of a few in getting behind the class and getting the regs right to allow kit that was sitting under people's benches unused (like the TMKV95) to compete on an equal footing with the likes of the Vortex (The class Champion was 2012 European Div 1 Champion, Lee Harpham driving an F1 chassis with a TM KV95 engine). The class is made up of a selection of new, existing and returnee drivers and great news for the UK superkarting scene.

Best Regards

Ian :)